Awesome post Jeff. I have been trying to figure stuff out in my life and see if I should continue to pursue someone or go on with my life and this blog has helped me a little better to organize my thoughts. It is kind of sad when I see people in bad relationships and they just won't listen to reason. I think if more people just stepped back and looked at the situation they might see the problem and act. Thank you for the words.

Why did you blow off the advice you were given?

Because I know everything, of course. No one could possibly have known my situation.

I guess the post is more of a realization that I was such a dumbass. Not dating at all in high school and minimally in college was stupid, and I don't even remember what my hang up was. I mean, I was an RA and had a lot of counseling training, and could see the obvious issues everyone else had, but not my own.

It's all water under the bridge, I suppose, but perhaps the exposure to a "really good thing" right now is making me realize only now how not ideal my past encounters were. After all, I sure wouldn't trade them in, but maybe the bigger frustration is that we need to go through shit to get right.

I suppose that other people blow off advice for the same reasons. No one wants to hear they're "wrong." No one wants to give up on the relationship they have put time into. And even though people can be shitty, there is still love mixed in which makes it impossible to completely hate the other person.

If Jamie and I had listened to family and friends - we wouldn't have been married for the past 11 years.

I've never had a relationship (no matter how serious or casual) that required the kind of work described here (and by other CF'ers).

I don't know if I'm incredibly lucky or incredibly naive - or both!

I'm in your boat Gonch, even if I am in the "young couple" section.

The love thing sure does complicate things. I most certainly love all of the women in my past relationships, and to a degree I always will. I think that perhaps we struggle in some way to think that if we move on from the relationship, it invalidates that love or declares it an extended falsehood. And that's not right at all, because those feelings were real, and you got something out of it. Like I said, I loved the years I had with Stephanie, but I know now that we're not the match I thought we were.

And Gonch and Tyler... if it's that easy for you, it's a good indication that if it's not that easy for us, we should move on until we find that ease because it does exist.

Good thoughts.

Not that my two cents are needed here, but I would want to add that there is also the element of whether a person has any positive relationships from which they can draw a frame of reference. If one doesn't have any great examples around them (e.g. their parents are divorced) they may not know what a good relationship is and what they are looking for in a mate. In that case it may take more stumbling than others do while one figures it all out. Just a thought.

Also, regarding people heeding valuable relationship advice, it is important to remember that approach is everything. If you put someone in the position of defending their mate, then they can't be in the position to defend themselves. "Calling someone on the bullshit" seems like you are helping and simply pointing out the obvious. But remember, your friend loves this person and if she feels like she has to defend him, then she will, even at her own expense.

You're so right about that, Carrie. That's one of the things my counselor identified early with Steph and I, that neither one of us had really good examples of how to conduct a relationship. In that respect, I finally understood what the right way was while dating Cath. Yeah, we ended up breaking up in the long run, but for the most part there was no mystery about how things were.

I think, even though there are people who have the experience and can provide direction or advice, the advice is only going to be listened to if it's asked for. Otherwise, people consider it criticism of their relationship and/or their partner. That's why counseling doesn't work unless both parties are willing to truly work things out with some "stranger".

I've had divorced parents, but other close people in my life who had very long term, happy marriages, so I saw both sides.

Still, my first marriage was a major mistake. My second is going on 28 years and there were some really rough times 15 years into it where we came >< close to divorcing, but we worked things out and our relationship is stronger because of it.

Not everyone is able to come back from the brink of divorce like that, though.

I'm rambling. I guess what I'm saying is for all my past experience, I'm leery about giving advice unless it's asked for, even though the temptation to give it sometimes is strong.

I did not know you had been previously married. You learn something every day!

I knew the first time was a mistake. I was 21, she was younger, and pregnant. The "right thing to do" provided me with three wonderful children and as a result, I have no regrets.

However, the concept of "right" is situational.
We rushed into things and should not have.

The second time I think we rushed it some, but we were adults, both divorced, both with children, and we knew. It felt right, and so far it has been. My relationship with Stephanie is not always perfect. But I can tell you that most problems come from communication challenges and the children. Since the children are almost all adults (three of the six are eighteen or older) there is much less friction.

We don't consciously work on our marriage. It just happens. When there is a problem - we discuss it and someone takes action. My ADD is an example of that. I was driving her crazy (and myself). She told me so, and told me what she thought it could be. This was not an arm chair diagnosis, she is a clinical social worker. I took her advice, saw a doctor, and now, with the help of some mental exercises and a little orange pill, things are much better.

I have a great new role within my same company and things are looking up for us in the short, mid, and long term.

Relationship thoughts and advice

"We don't consciously work on our marriage. It just happens."

I love that line, Eric. I agree entirely.

I really wish I could add to this discussion, but I just don't relate on any level.

I guess I don't understand why so much thought and analysis seems to be needed. To me a relationship is like breathing - if it takes conscious effort, something is wrong.

You're exactly right, but most of us don't want to admit that because it may reflect something we don't want to see in ourselves. It's easier on our minds to persist the struggle.

Gonch, my marriage to Gordon didn't take conscious effort the first 13 years (if you want to add the two years we were together prior to getting married, make it 15 years). Neither of us expected the changes that happened...some of them slowly over time and others we didn't realize were problems until my husband's depression struck him.

The easy way out would have been for us to walk away.

The point is, even the best marriages can have issues further down the road that DOES take conscious effort to resolve.